Posts Tagged ‘Jeffrey Lewis’

I loved playing these songs in all their forms.

By Jack Lewis



Photo: Sarah Cass



Tried to find all evidence of its existence on youtube recently. Then moved on to album reviews.

Almost our full set from Primavera is online

(all audio is crap, but sounds better if you use real speakers/get more low end/IE bass/IE me)

First Song:

“In the Beginning” (Written by Jeffrey Lewis, Kimya Dawson, Karl Blau, Jack Lewis and Anders Griffen)

2. Over the Moon

Not sure of the set order after that.

Desert Bundles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbI2pGblMDQ (Primavera)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swo8nv-IDfo&list=PL07EI0qrMrAuSMUmappZzcu6mjG4jOoR9 (Glazart/Paris)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWYXFzOXBmo (Primavera)


Supergroup cover medley

Traveling Wilburys “End of the Line

Raconteurs “Steady As She Goes”

Temple of the Dog “Hunger Strike”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEhNOMHIBOA (Union Chapel/London)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn0M-pQIVRM (Glazart/Paris)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKGHhU5Zoto  (Union Chapel/London)

(Can anyone tell me what the guy at the end of this yells?)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMYmN04xHMI (jeff and Kimya)

(with extended banter intro: Pavement was there playing some of their first shows on their reunion tour, it was a big deal)


Pirates Declare War

Original audio recording:










(just Audio, live at Brudenell Social Club Leeds/UK)

Album version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kURjCrBbHSk


Last time I played this

Common Chorus


(album version)

Full album:


bundlesPhoto: Sarah Cass


Oh and that Pitchfork Review:


Personally I think this is one of the albums I’m most proud of playing and being a part of.

Recorded/Engineered and “Produced” by Karl Blau at Dub Narcotic, Olympia Washington. It was a dream come true to record there and release something on K records. I even got to draw the K shield on the back of the album.









Album Cover design by Toby Goodshank

Primavera stage

Photo: Anders Griffen (Primavera)


Photo: Eric Lippe (sidewalk cafe)




Photo: Eric Lippe (sidewalk cafe)



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My brother Jeff posted this remembrance on his message board. It reminded me how much we grew up with Lou together and what a strong connection he had for both of us.

From: http://jeffreylewisboard.free.fr/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14405#14405

“I should add my voice to the crowd of folks weighing in on Lou Reed this week, last week, and onwards!

I thought I’d now start a Lou Reed string on the message board but it’s already here!

I figured I’d write something last week but here I am, a bit late, but it’s given me time to spend the whole week listening to Lou Reed albums and reading the various tributes and other stuff. I liked Laurie Anderson’s short upbeat obituary piece, and I liked Jarvis Cocker’s two-hour radio show (which is still streamable all week). Also liked the stuff in the Village Voice tribute issue, pretty fun to read those old reprinted reviews, one old Voice review of the Velvet Underground’s last show, and a Voice review of one of Lou’s first solo shows, and the Voice review of Street Hassle from 1978, which is the B+ review that Lou is complaining about on the Take No Prisoners live album later that year. I didn’t really like the Voice review of the New York album, which was too analytic for its own good, even though a good and smart review. It didn’t enrich the album but tried to deflate the album by pointing out everything flawed about it, and flawed about the philosophies behind it. Come on, this is a great great record, no need to try to outsmart it!
Anyway… I am a big Lou Reed fan. Jack really started me on this, because he brought home a tape that some friend of his made, which had Transformer on one side and Set the Twilight Reeling on the other side – what a great combo of albums! And what a blessing to be introduced to both his most seminal famous early hit record and his greatest late-period album, all in one shot. Remember, this was a TAPE; totally different from just getting both albums on CD or vinyl. Every time I listened to Transformer, I then had to listen to Set the Twilight Reeling on the other side to get back to the top of Side A. So I had a very balanced introduction to both early Lou and late Lou, absorbing both albums at the same rate. Of course I’d already been into the Velvet Underground, and Jack and I probably already had every Velvets album on vinyl (used vinyl was just so much cheaper those days in the 90s! The cheapest way to get anything!), but I was always wary of artists’ solo careers. Jack even got the Lou Reed box set for some reason, on cassette, and that introduced us to a lot of great songs, like “My Friend George”, but still I was mistrustful of buying any other post-Velvets Lou. I mean, like an idiot, it took me years to venture beyond the first Modern Lovers album because I figured Jonathan Richman’s career must have been lamer after he went solo! How stupid of me. I think I was maybe scared off because of my early experiences buying solo albums from Robert Plant and stuff like that! So I always figured that somebody’s work with their original band was the “real” stuff, and the later solo work was just for suckers. In Lou’s case this is totally wrong, because his later work is so great. Jack also initially had a mix tape from a friend, maybe the same friend, that had the Lou song “Sword of Damocles” on it – although it was many years later that I got into the whole Magic & Loss album that the song is on (one of Lou’s absolute best albums), that song made a big impression on me and Jack. It was so wonderfully STUPID – but also so moving! So blunt but so poetic. It probably influenced my writing, I was probably just starting around that time. When had we ever heard a lyric like the line about seeing the kid get hit by a bus on 33rd St? “Last night on 33rd St, I saw a kid get hit by a bus”… It didn’t even rhyme with anything, had nothing to really do with the rest of the song so far, such a random brutal image that came out of nowhere, and was it really true?!? It sounded true, why else would he say it? But nobody ever just SAID that in a song, it was like Daniel Johnston, it was so direct, it was so amazing to learn that you could just say what you saw and felt, and then you had a song. A really, really good song! Of course Lou always made it seem SOOO easy. In fact, the reason Jack and I ended up eventually owning every single Lou Reed album on vinyl is that they were also SOOO easy to find for cheap here in NYC. Nobody cared about these records, and maybe they still don’t, you can maybe still find The Bells for $4 in any record shop, and Mistrial for $3, and New Sensations for $2, and maybe The Blue Mask for $4, you might have to shell out $7 for Berlin, if it was a nice copy that still had the lyric sheet inside… but that was it. Nobody wanted those records! Lou had this stupid voice, and this stupid blunt way of writing that seemed so artless and plain, and all these cheap used records that the stores couldn’t get rid of, and then of course the production on so many of those records seemed so misguided, over-produced, stupid 80s synth stuff and cheesy jazzy sounds, and Lou even RAPPED on some stuff, it was like a joke to us that we liked all this stuff. It was like this cheap, great, enjoyable thing for me and Jack… and that’s part of why it’s so weird this week to hear so much outpouring of appreciation for Lou, because he really WAS great. I didn’t even realize how his greatness was so widely known and accepted. I thought Lou was like me and Jack’s private friend, who said funny and cool stuff to us. Of course that’s part of Lou’s insanely endlessly brilliant magic – he always made you feel like he was talking right to you. Just your own friend, because it always seemed like he wasn’t trying to impress you, wasn’t trying to sound smart, he just WAS smart, sometimes anyway, and he wasn’t trying to sound good, he was just being his somewhat foolish, somewhat thoughtful self, you could laugh at him and you could laugh with him, and he was there for you like our own neighborhood friend, or at least that’s the impression he gave. I guess Jack and I were really sharing Lou with a lot more people than we knew, all that time. Maybe a lot of people felt that way about Lou, that he was their own personal sort of stupid but actually great thing? Yes, he played big expensive concerts, he was obviously this big popular famous rock star, it’s not that Jack and I thought we were the only ones who knew about Lou Reed, but in those big shows he was always playing Sweet Jane over and over in worse and worse versions, every single Lou Reed live album just had worse and worse versions of Waiting for the Man and Heroin, it was like he had this split career, the Lou who had to crank out these stupid soulless retreads of Velvets songs, then there was this whole other hidden Lou, who was like a joke to most people but who was our friend, almost our relative. We had a big Lou Reed poster on the wall in our bedroom, I made it myself by stealing a Lou Reed advertisement from a newsstand on First Avenue (hustling off pretending not to hear the newsstand guy yell after me), chopping out the head and neck and pasting it onto a Terminator poster that we’d already had on the wall a long time. It’s amazing how well Lou’s head and wrinkly old-man neck fit perfectly onto the Arnold Schwartzenegger image, even though the Lou poster part was black and white and the Terminator was in color with a gun and a leather jacket and red light flying behind him. And Lou had this funny grumpy expression on his face, with almost a little hint of smile if you looked at it for just a second from the correct angle. Jack and I called him “old monkey face” cuz he looked like that in the poster, and we had a song with the line “this one goes out to old monkey-face, this one goes out to old monkey-face…”. So Lou was like this lovable mockery. And such a great example of how to be an artist whom a fan could truly love, an artist so unafraid of being foolish that you had to just love all his foolishness as part of the package, he really could do no wrong if you were into him like we were, because any wrong was just an accepted part of the package. You couldn’t write a line like “last night on 33rd St I saw a kid get hit by a bus” if you weren’t also insane enough to do some ridiculously bad re-do of Venus In Furs, crapping all over what had originally been sublime.
Anyway, I have spent this past week listening to all of the albums, especially the ones that were the “bad” ones, like The Bells, Legendary Hearts, Growing Up in Public (still one of the lamest ones), New Sensations (which is actually a good one in disguise), and of course even Lulu, and also his first self-titled album, etc., etc., but they don’t sound bad at all, even his most embarrassing moments, like “Disco Mystic”, just sound so great to me, so stupid and fearless and great and lovable. Of course some of his stuff is actually stupid, like “Disco Mystic”, while other stuff is so agonizingly sublime it slaughters every other songwriter ever. I don’t mean that he’s just lovably clueless, that’s one way to love him, but then there’s other stuff where he’s just plain great!
I guess I’m just frustrated this week, to feel like the greatness that Lou always made seem attainable is less attainable than he made it seem. I mean, I thought, if it was so seemingly easy for Lou to make a stupid album like Sally Can’t Dance, and everybody seemingly thought it was stupid, but I personally thought it was actually great, then maybe I could make albums that a lot of people think are stupid but somebody out there might think was great. But this week it has become clearer that Lou really WAS loved and worshipped by everybody, even all those later albums, it wasn’t just that everybody was listening to the best of the Velvet Underground – So, if Jim Carroll was TRYING to be as good as Lou’s later “lame” albums, and Richard Hell was TRYING to be as good as Lou, and Jarvis Cocker was TRYING to be as good as Lou’s solo career, and John Darnielle, and basically every songwriter/guitarist for decades were actually all TRYING to be as good as Lou, and every single one of them basically failed to even be as good as Lou’s lamest albums, then it makes the whole enterprise seem more frustrating and pointless. Lou always just made his greatness seem so easy, so tossed off, made himself seem so laughable half the time, but nobody else can do it, not his guitar style, or his voice, or his songwriting, all of which just look so damn natural and easy for him, like falling off a log. He was a giant monster of an artist, even at his most foolish really. I want to believe that you can be a great artist just by being yourself, and Lou always inspired that feeling, but obviously ten million people have tried and failed to be as good as Lou, and I’m just one of the millions, I never quite realized how lightyears out of reach his “normal guy” greatness really is. His artistry is ascending beyond my grasp, but I want to keep him around as my neighborhood friend on disc, I don’t want him to be publicly deified, I want to be the only one who knows and loves him! It’s like the reverse of being a Deadhead – I loved being part of a huge community that knows every Grateful Dead song, and part of this whole huge thing about the Grateful Dead that you can share with all these other people – but for Lou Reed it was a more personal private thing, because how could he be everybody’s neighbor? But that was his art, he just made everybody feel that way.
He’s kind of the first major songwriter of the 60s to die, right? Dylan’s still around, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon.
Ironically, the ONE Lou Reed album that Jack and I never bought on vinyl was Transformer, because it was so common – every time I saw that record for $8 or $10 or $6 I figured I’d just wait until i saw it for $4, but I still haven’t. So I have every Lou album on vinyl except the one that i should have gotten first!! Actually the night before Lou died I was in a record store in Colorado and saw a vinyl copy of Transformer, asked the guy how much it was and he said $18! Screw that! I’ll find my $4 copy yet.
I think that New York and Songs For Drella, both great albums, were Lou’s last to be released on vinyl, every album after that was only on CD (except for the recent Lulu which does have a vinyl edition).
Okay, here’s the truly GREAT Lou albums:
Set the Twilight Reeling
Magic & Loss
New York
Songs For Drella
and I’d personally consider Mistrial to be a favorite, though it’s probably not actually as good as those others.
Coney Island Baby is also a total classic, though for some reason I don’t currently hold it in my top-top-top Lou favorites.

And weirdly, Berlin, which is supposed to be one of his best, has never been one of my favorites, it’s one of the ones I like least.

The best live album has got to be Take No Prisoners, for all the great rants, most of the other live albums are sort of pointless although the 2003 one, Animal Language, is surprisingly good.

I only saw Lou live once, with Jack in NY in about 2004 or some such, around the time the Ecstasy album came out, a spotty album which does in fact have some quite good material. The song Ecstasy was the best part of the show, with Lou giving a good extended rant in the middle. I don’t remember anything else about the set. Jack also had seen Lou play a few years earlier, maybe 1997 or something, with Luna opening up.
Oh wait, and there was the gig I PLAYED with Lou (sort of), which was the Tuli Kupferberg benefit a couple years back at St. Ann’s Warehouse in Brooklyn, I was on the bill with about 30 other performers, including Phillip Glass and Sonic Youth! Lou just made horrid feedback noise on stage with Laurie Anderson and John Zorn and a keyboard guy, all making horrid noise together, for about 7 minutes without a word. It was kind of cool for the “fuck you” aspect of it, and of course it was really cool that Lou participated in the event at all. So I did actually see him live twice. Wait, I think I also saw him do a poetry reading, how could I forget? At Housing Works, he basically just read some old lyrics from The Blue Mask, etc.

Well, no way to wrap this up. Didn’t mean to write so long!
I’ll just keep listening to all these albums this week because they keep getting better.

PS – I should make clear that Jack and I weren’t into Lou Reed since childhood or anything like that – I guess when we were getting into those tapes and first started buying those used records it was about 1996 or 1997, maybe I was about 22 and Jack was about 17. But we still basically shared a bedroom at our parents’ place, even though I lived other places and Jack was still in school, we still spent a lot of time at our parents’ place, so we were still putting up posters there, accumulating records and tapes there, etc.”

-Jeffrey Lewis 2013

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I can’t get this link to work properly. Ach. I guess you’ll have to copy and paste the URL. Who the hell is going to do that? What an amateur move. I blame WordPress.

Untitled Podcast Project: The Review

Wait, I think that works. Oh boy. If it doesn’t copy and paste the below link.


First episode of my untitled podcast project. This episode is called “The Review.”  It features a short story and a post show discussion with my brother Jeff and Drummer Dave. Topics include the show we just played in Nottingham, UK, Lou Reed and a review by the music critic Robert Christgau on NPR’s All Things Considered. It features music by My Two Toms, Ghostman & Sandman, The Teardrop Explodes and Lou Reed.

Photo 73

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Article about bands refusing to play their hits and my thoughts:


Very interesting, I wish the article was longer and interviewed the bands more.
I could guess what MGMT might say or think.
They want to create a fan base that isn’t just there for the hits.
Also hits are hard to “create” ( writing a good song and then it takes off), so a band might think it has a hit, and their audience disagrees.

Playing in band with my brother for 10 years, he has a few  “hits” or songs his audience wants to hear. 1-4 top-tier and another 5-10 lower tier. (I might have a couple). The drummer and myself argue with Jeff and tell him to play more hits. He hates it. He likes to try to live his life according to the Fall, only play the new album.

It’s always a thin line about being creative and an artist and giving the audience what they want.

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Yesterday morning in Marseilles I found out our good friend Dashan Coram has died. Very shocking. I’ve known him for many years. Recorded in his bedroom and played in his band and he played in mine. He’s a huge presence in the NY music scene I grew up in.

I still can’t believe it. It’s so damn sad.

A few of the old songs he recorded for me appear on my new album. There is an out pouring of love and grief from the huge NY music community.

There is a memorial Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=607220471#!/DashanCoramForever

Back to the road days earlier:


Now in Lille, last night was Brussels and the night before was Amsterdam.

We’re supposed to write a song about the venue we played tonight in Lille. They are hosting us tomorrow and Jeff has been commissioned to write them a ditty. I’m not sure what he will write. We thought of these lyrics: “There is a stage and microphones and it is a venue” (just need a melody). Lou Reed is playing the big room of the same venue. Tickets are 85 Euros. Wow. He’s doing a whole European tour called “From VU to LuLu” I wish I could see one of the shows. (or maybe not)

The night before we were in Brussels. We see our old friend Guillame and we play again with our old friend Seth:

We stayed at our old friend Sabrina’s house. It was very nice. her boyfriend Louie runs a used bookstore and he shows us a book he has from the 16th century.

I stayed up all night on the internet and today was very tired. I slept through dinner.

Played with a cool band in Brussels called Joy as a Toy.

Back home I get updates from Marci about the new roof that we are getting, it’s very stressful that I am not able to be home to over-see the work. We had them put in 3 skylights, but they put them in very roughly and now we need to fix the holes. AAAA.

In Amsterdam I met up with Marci’s cousin Emille, who moved her years ago and has a wife and child now. I have a great time hanging out at the Jewish museum and walking the streets. We have a really cool conversation about lots of different topics.

Music, art, creative lives, relationships. It was good.

In Lille. I forget if I mentioned this. On the first day of tour I realize that I’ve forgotten to bring two pairs of jeans. I had two pairs ready to go, but forgot one. I can’t survive 5 weeks on tour with 1 pair of jeans. A couple days in and my one pair of pants has already developed a hole in the knee. What the hell? I just bought these jeans (second hand sure) but really they should last longer. Ach.

(When I image searched ripped jeans I found this image:

I tried buying pants in Amsterdam but they were pricey and didn’t fit that well. In Lille, there’s an H & M near the venue. I’ve never bought anything from and H & M, maybe never been in there, but I am now the happy owner of a fresh pair of blue H & M pants. Sort of like jeans, but not really. My brother was jealous of my new pants, he wanted his own pair. Ha.

The venue we play in Lille is hosting Lou Reed in a month (we played the small stage, he will play the big stage) tickets are 85 Euros, 2,000 capacity and he gets the whole door. The venue is government-funded and will lose lots of money on the show. French tax payer money going to support Lou and his crew. It doesn’t seem that reasonable.

Also in Lille, the venue is near a gypsy camp. I’ve never seen such a  thing. Lots of trailers and trash and scrap every where. And gypsy’s walking around, lots of kids.

Another world. I don’t think we see many real gypsies in America. More hippies and faux gypsies.

In Lyon we play a weird small festival that has two stages.One stage is techno DJs (or house or whatever dance music is), the other stage is weird cult bands not many people care about. Our stage is us, Gallon Drunk, Black Jaspers (Side project of King Kahn), Rocket from the Tomb (old 70’s punk/proto metal band with Dave Thomas who later formed Peru Ubu) and a  band called the Spits (who came out wearing Ronald Reagan masks (great shtick).

During our set it starts pouring rain, there are some hard-core fans up front and then everyone else hiding in the back. When the rain stops more people come out, but then there’s more rain and then hail and everyone disperses again. Oh well.

The festival has amazing weird/scary  composting toilets. The toilets  dust and the pissers have hay.





Some members of the band the Black Lips are hanging out with King Kahn.

We played with them in Barcelona at a big show for Primavera. I say hi to one of them who says his name is Cole.  he remembers  Jeff’s history of the Fall. I tell him I heard him on NPR with Kesha.


They’re much more media savvy then Jeff. Also they appear too cool to care really who we are. King Kahn is nice though. I had him read my tarot cards at Primavera a couple years ago.

Jeff and I watch Rocket From The Tombs.

Jeff tells me Cheeta Chrome is on bass and that he heard whole episode of Ken Katkin’s Trash Flow Radio dedicated to him. He says he told Dave Thomas backstage, but he didn’t respond or care at all.

After the show I decide to tell Cheeta. Dave Thomas is sitting exhausted. I tell him I saw him years ago at Prospect park, he doesn’t care. I tell Cheeta about Ken Katkin’s show. “Oh yeah” he says, “Cheeta really held the whole band together, was the glue” I guess he’s not Cheeta Chrome.

The festival is a day thing and it’s over on the early side. Back at hotel I’m able to have a nice video- chat with Marci back in Portland.  She’ shows me the new skylight in our bathroom and a bunch of garden work she’s done.

It’s late but I’m hungry so I go out and get churro and some pizza around 2 AM. Ug.

The next morning I wake up to the phone ringing. Drummer Dave says we’re late. I feel totally dizzy and hung over. I feel nauseous, I have some sort of pizza hangover.

It’s a long drive to Bordeaux. Err.

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4th day on the road.

Driving from Amsterdam to Brussels I put on an episode of WNYC Soundcheck. Mike Watt is the guest. He talks about keeping a tour diary to stay sane on tour.

I didn’t feel like keeping one yet, but I feel the craziness and depression creeping in, maybe it was driving in traffic today or maybe it was … the usual.

So some memories from the first few days.

I fly from Portland to Philly and get a flight to Paris. I’ve taken some Tylenol Pm to sleep and I drift in and out of some restless rest. My TV is broken so I can’t watch any movies. I suppose this is good I need to sleep. But perhaps I would have watched with Sherlock 2, The Artist, or ….

In Rouen. We’re playing an arts center, very nice space and they’ve let us rehearse in some studios they have there also very nice. But there are some issues with the bathrooms. The first night I use the men’s room and notice there is no toilet paper. Luckily I have toilet paper in my bookbag left over from a hike earlier that week. What luck! When I’m done I grab some toilet paper and paper towels from the women’s bathroom next door and leave some for the next person.

The women’s room is fully stocked. Which is nice. The next day I’m shocked when I return to the same men’s bathroom and there is still no toilet paper or paper towels.

Again I grab some from the fully stocked women’s room. I guess no one told the guy to re-stock and damned if I’m going to do it.

That night after our show there is another band playing in the big room. It’s a huge 35 piece big band playing great big band music,  Gypsy brass, Samba, big band jazz, white soul. It’s a treat to see/hear.

In Rouen we try to see the famous Rouen Cathedral made famous by Monet’s paintings. We drive around and pass two possible locations. We don’t have time to stay long. Jeff and I were here many years ago and we both drew pictures of the Cathedral, but we’re not sure which one it was.

The venue screens a French documentary about the radical 60’s group the Diggers. It’s not that great, but it does have some interesting discussions about freedom and liberty. I’m very jet lagged and end up staying up late. The next day I’m exhausted, but when the night comes I can’t sleep that well again. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers_%28theater%29)

Other Rouen tid-bit. Our rooms were on the 5th floor of a hotel. 1st off it was nice that we got hotel rooms, a real luxury for us on tour. 2nd, I forced myself to walk up and down the stairs at least a few times to get some much needed exercise. Man it’s tough to do that.

Other news. I don’t have toothpaste and haven’t brushed in days. Very bad. Just chomping a box of mints I bought in Virginia. I feel very embarrassed every time I talk to someone. (and I also feel bad for all the people I make out with —joking)

In Paris I meet Julian who is friends with the Herman Dune crew and Jeff, I feel like I’ve never met him before. He’s a painter/artist and it’s nice to talk a little art/music with him.

I’m sad the night before in Paris my old friend Carter played with the band Lower Dens. We just missed each other. This happens with Jeff Brodsky, another friend who played Amsterdam the night before we did. (he plays drums in Yacht).

We’re playing tonight with some old friends and influential people to Jeff’s musical life. Ish Marquez and Seth Fergolzia (Dufus).

Lisa Li Lund the Herman Dune sister comes, haven’t seen her in years.  We don’t have a place to stay for the evening, but then a friend from New York– Julie from Ching Chong song and The Wowz– is there and can host a couple of us.  she’s in Paris to perform in what sounds like a wild crazy experimental theater/opera piece that she’s been working with for years).

Jeff and I go to Lisa’s place. She has awesome books and drawings and stuff and a funny yippy dog named Cookie Balboa. She gives us shirts that she made for her band, they are amazing. Drawn by our friend Mayon. I wish our t-shirts looked half as cool. Our shirts look like shit.

In the morning we all meet up and Julie takes us to a special bakery. Oh my, we all get this special pistachio chocolate croissant. It is  …. I’m still speechless.

Some shots from the bakery: 




I suppose more to come.

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Jeff: “me & Katey & Peter & Kristin went to go see “Inside Job,” which you’ve probably seen but if you haven’t then you should definitely see it.”

Jack:  “I have not seen Inside Job, but I’m taking macroeconomics, so I know the deal.”


Jeff: “You should definitely see Inside Job, everybody should see it.  Especially
for you to relate it to your classes, because there’s some stuff about the
way economics are taught in the US.”

Jack: sure sure, But I have a pretty liberal economics professor.
Right now we’re doing the classical/orthodox method which is the basic
Laissezfaire idea that most conservatives subscribe to and have
convince most poor americans to do this as well against their

Then we’ll finish with the Keynesian model with some Marxist model.

Did they talk in the movie about how the government got rid of the
Glass-Stegal act in 1999 (under Clinton) this was an FDR policy that
regulated banks and prevented them from investing in the stock market
themselves.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_Steagall_Act

Also, I saw an interesting interview with Bill Moyers and Bill Bartlett. Barlett had some smart stuff to say about people in general.


1. People think if government is more powerful, people will be less powerful
2. People don’t know how their taxes are being spent (this is based on
surveys, but I’m not sure if it was just a  survey of Tea Party people
or not.).
They think gov spends %20 on foreign aid, it is really %1. They think
they are being taxed at a higher rate then they are. (they think %50,
when it’s around 20-30%)
The government should break it down for everyone simple, total % a
year (state/federal)- + what it’s spent on % wise.

Jeff: Jack, you say:

“The government should break it down for everyone simple, total % a
year (state/federal)- + what it’s spent on % wise.”

I absolutely agree.  I started writing you back but it expanded so much that I also decided to post it on the OJ board.
Here’s my thought:

I’ve been saying this for a little while and I wonder why it isn’t said more.
Maybe somebody can point out flaws in this idea that I haven’t considered yet.

Why not have more REAL democracy by allowing every citizen, on his or her tax return each year, to decide where they want their tax money to go to?
Each year the IRS should provide a pie chart, or similar graph, to show how Americans’ tax money was spent in the preceding year (or years).  People could check off a box that says “let the elected government officials decide how to allocate my tax payments this year” but they would ALSO have the option to create a pie chart or other graph of how they want THEIR OWN tax contribution to be divided up in the coming year, among a list of existing categories:  funding for education, military spending, arts programs, infrastructure, scientific research into sustainable energy, etc etc.

This could begin as merely a survey, without changing the current system of tax funds being allocated via elected (or appointed) officials, just to see how different the will of the tax paying public is from the decisions that are being made in their name.

Ultimately if implemented it would be true financial democracy, and society would benefit or fail based on its actual democratic decisions, removed from any threat of elected/appointed officials’ self-interest/ideology or other distortions of democracy which are inherent in a republic form of government.

The government could still oversee the process via the usual departments, and there could still be some form of electoral college to balance out the results of popular vote results vs. electoral vote results, to avoid high-populated areas/states receiving too much representation in budget decisions. For example this would be important if a low-population state (such as Maine) might still be very rich in resources (such as wood), and might be uncomfortable with a high population state (such as California) having too much influence over how to allocate Maine’s resources; other such situations would exist too, which would require some balancing between electoral and popular votes regarding tax money allocation, just as the current system attempts to balance such issues (for example each state gets 2 senators regardless of population, plus a number of representatives proportional to state population, seemingly an effective compromise).  America is already used to the flexibility involved in juggling representation between federal and state interests; if this is a point of contention regarding the allocation of tax resources via democracy, that’s no different than any other federal vs. state issue that goes on in America all the time (like the Civil War for example).

Anyway, like our “republic” system of democratically elected representatives, I believe that the current tax system was a system formed based on the technological realities of the day in 1776, at which point only representational democracy rather than actual democracy would have been technologically practical.  But the world is very different today.

Everybody knows that power corrupts – that’s one of the great arguments for democracy in the first place, the de-centralization of power, a process that has made slow (but definite and progressive) headway against countless millennia of centralized/arbitrary power systems.

The argument against democracy is also millennia old: the people are too uneducated as a mass for majority-rule to effectively steer society in and of itself.  But this seems an awfully self-serving argument when made by an existing power structure.  How many individuals would, if given the choice, prefer the decisions affecting them to be made by somebody else?  Probably very few, at least according to the values of democracy/freedom/self-determination that we Americans have been pumped full of since birth.  And perhaps these values are inherent in all humanity, perhaps even in most life forms.  That may or may not be true.  In any case, a democratic tax system – why not??  Do you believe in democracy or don’t you??

Jack: you’re plan is a little to radical and unrealistic.
I simple want some tax code reform which I think is more realistic goal.
Oregon is a broke state,
but they could help that by imposing a %1 sales tax on none essential
goods (not on food etc). But it seems impossible to get this done.

During the New deal, anyone making over 5 million was taxed at about a
75% tax rate.
this continued until Reagan. It’s now below %20 because of tax loop holes.
(Mitt   %15, Warren Buffet taxed less than his secretary)

You’re idea doesn’t really work because people do need to contribute
to an anonymous collective whole, but they would never do that given
the choice.
Sure it’d be interesting if this was done every year as a survey
hypothetically and the categories were chosen for people

state (local education, infrastructure, public officials etc)
fed (education, infrastructure etc)

etc etc

Jeff: “You say
“Did they talk in the movie about how the government got rid of the
Glass-Stegal act in 1999 (under Clinton) this was an FDR policy that
regulated banks and prevented them from investing in the stock market

Yes, it did talk about this.  But the movie only said this allowed savings banks to merge with investment banks, and the movie didn’t mention what I thought was an important part of this decision, based on what I’ve read on Wikipedia:  the original Banking Act of 1933 (Glass-Stegal Act) also established the FDIC, which was a way to prevent a “run on the bank” from occurring like what used to happen in the wild west and before the great depression.  The FDIC was/is government insurance for everybody who had their money in a regular savings bank, up to a certain amount  (it was originally something like $2,500 in 1933).  In other words, if you were just a normal person putting money in a bank, not somebody making an investment hoping to make a profit, then no matter what happened to that savings bank, if the bank went out of business, or everybody pulled their money out of the savings bank at the exact same time (a “run on the bank”), the government would make sure that every person would get the amount of money they had put into that savings bank (up to a certain amount).  If the bank really didn’t have the money to pay everybody, the government would cover the rest of the loss, from tax payers’ money.  That’s why there was a limit on how much each person’s bank investment could be covered, and that limit of course rose over the years, until I think the FDIC currently insures each citizen up to $250,000 of what they put into a savings bank.  This was also a big reason for the original Glass-Stegal 1933 provision that savings banks HAD to be completely separate from investment banks – because investment banks are much riskier, so the government refuses to ensure THAT risky money with an FDIC guarantee.  (The same as how you might pay your car insurance company to insure your normal, safe car, but that insurance doesn’t also cover the 300-mile-an-hour race car that you drive on race tracks on weekends – it’s a much riskier vehicle so the insurance is unwilling to cover it under the same policy.)  SO when the Glass-Stegal act was overturned in 1999, the fact that investment banks could merge with savings banks wasn’t just bad because it allowed for bigger corporations, verging on monopolies, with increased money and power: the overturning of Glass-Stegal in 1999 also meant that NOW the government/FDIC/tax payers’ money IS in fact still left responsible to cover savings banks’ losses, even though the savings banks can now be playing with your savings money in much higher-risk investment scenarios/gambles purely for their own benefit, and when the high-risk scenarios/gambles pay off for the banks, the winnings are kept by the bank company.  But when the high-risk gambles lose, the banks have no worries because the government is still responsible to insure people.  A totally fucked up situation, and nobody seemed to fight it much while the banks were winning their gambles, but of course gamblers don’t win all the time, and the big gambles eventually lost big, and cost the tax payers hundreds of billions.  The fact that the banks now knew they’d be protected by the government (and deemed “too big to fail”) probably psychologically even made the banks gamble bigger than they knew was smart – what did they care?  If they won, they kept the money, and if/when they eventually lost, the public would pay.
At least that’s my understanding of it based on some Wikipedia pages.  This FDIC aspect wasn’t discussed in Inside Job, and I may be wrong about my current understanding.”

… More to come

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